Help needed - RFS & SES, Mid Murray (non GRN).

RFS, SES, SLSA, VRA, SJA
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tsunami_australia
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Re: Help needed - RFS & SES, Mid Murray (non GRN).

Post by tsunami_australia » Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:08 pm

poobah wrote: Is it likely to be true that when Telco (RFS) assignments exist in a town, I can rule out the old 'RFS' ones?
Yes. Telco Auth took over all main active frequencies for all the gov services and is now their licensing authority/agent.

Anything still RFS will be either old, simplex/portable repeater, links or just not in use any more.165 odd meg is fireground, 411 odd meg is fireground and then the 420s etc is PMR as a rule.

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Re: Help needed - RFS & SES, Mid Murray (non GRN).

Post by poobah » Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:08 am

tsunami_australia wrote:
poobah wrote: Is it likely to be true that when Telco (RFS) assignments exist in a town, I can rule out the old 'RFS' ones?
Yes. Telco Auth took over all main active frequencies for all the gov services and is now their licensing authority/agent.

Anything still RFS will be either old, simplex/portable repeater, links or just not in use any more.165 odd meg is fireground, 411 odd meg is fireground and then the 420s etc is PMR as a rule.
So I don't even have to check - the frequencies I'm interested in will ALL be Telco, state wide?! That's AWESOME!! I can now delete about half of my spreadsheet - that'sabout 3000 rows :mrgreen:

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Re: Help needed - RFS & SES, Mid Murray (non GRN).

Post by tsunami_australia » Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:59 am

I wouldn't because the fireground simplex stuff is still RFS not telco as far as I'm aware.

I think this post has had enough explainations.

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Re: Help needed - RFS & SES, Mid Murray (non GRN).

Post by Bigfella237 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:06 pm

poobah wrote: ~ I also still don't really understand (sorry Bigfella, you tried to enlighten me but I'm not sure whether you confirmed or rejected my theory) whether the NSW Telco Authority assignments are indeed "the GRN", or if they are separate channels unconnected to the GRN that they are just managing? Will the GRN show up in an ACMA search as something else when it is rolled out? ~
No worries, I'll try again...

The TELCO and the GRN are not the same thing, they are two completely separate entities.

As before, for the sake of this exercise think of the "GRN" as an "agency" the same as you would for "RFS" or "SES" or "ASNSW" etc.

All these agencies still have their own radio techs and/or contract out the physical install & repair work. The only thing the TELCO does is manage the frequency licences for these "agencies", including but certainly not limited to the "GRN".

There are actually quite a few different "agencies" involved with GRN frequencies (some entire GRN sites are licenced to individual agencies, some GRN sites have a mixture of licence holders, it mainly comes down to who's providing the funding for that particular site), but the main ACMA Client ID is 525851...

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Re: Help needed - RFS & SES, Mid Murray (non GRN).

Post by Bigfella237 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:18 pm

poobah wrote:~ I have no problem finding, lets say, RFS Tx frequencies. I might find 8 of them in a small town. Maybe 2 or 3 of them are Telco (RFS) and the rest are just plain RFS. I know one of those is the pager. ~
Geez, we haven't had RF pagers for ages, it's all done by text message nowadays!
poobah wrote: ~ So I guess what I was hoping for are any patterns, background info or clues that will help me narrow down which frequencies I should be interested in when I visit towns further afield. ~
One big clue to look for is the "Azimuth" column, if there is a bearing listed against any frequency then it is directional and not a wide-area frequency. I think you'll find this eliminates the majority of non-TELCO assignments as far as the RFS is concerned.

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Re: Help needed - RFS & SES, Mid Murray (non GRN).

Post by tsunami_australia » Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:33 pm

Bigfella237 wrote:Geez, we haven't had RF pagers for ages, it's all done by text message nowadays!
Still 100% pagers (the old POCSAG kind done with SPOK) here. I think OCC when they're on has BART but until OCA comes in and training is done (IF and when) it's still old school everything here. (I say IF because initially we were supposed to do ICON as well but then got in trouble and told to leave it alone because it needed training they weren't prepared to do - L&D here are useless and lazy and I've told them so a few times since it took near 3years just to finish a CCA course they were running which frankly makes me wonder why I bother)

OP the easiest way to see what you're looking for is see which "agency" you're chasing, see their ID number at the end of the client text and look through the list for them numbers (perhaps a search). ALL gov licenses in NSW are now TelCo authority (or still switching over the non PMR/GRN stuff).

OP I see the VHF fireground is still listed to RFS even though it should be TelcoAuth "Client NSW Rural Fire Service" (161.1500).

Everyone else .... interesting find I just made.....411.0125 (F01 SIM ANLG, F05 SIM ANLG, F09 SIM DGTL, F13 SIM DGTL), 411.0375 etc are NOT licensed any more despite them still being used. Does anyone have any info on this? It seems that ALL the UHF fireground frequency licenses have lapsed. The only NSW license I see for 411.0125 is a construction mob in Surry Hills.

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Re: Help needed - RFS & SES, Mid Murray (non GRN).

Post by JAFO » Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:22 pm

The easiest way I find to search out Frequencies, is to use the AMCA Site's Map to identify Broadcast Sites that look like may hove the RFS or SES Sites you want, and then identify which site have the Frequency you are after.

Below, is the Barham RFS Brigade Station Site, which list 2x Frequencies, one a Directional the other a TX Frequency.
ACMA Map.jpg
(105.46 KiB) Not downloaded yet
When you open the site, it will take you to the page with the site assignments as below for the Barham RFS Brigade Station Site.
Untitled.jpg
(81.31 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Here you will find the 2x Frequencies Assignments
767005. 460.05 MHz 16K0F3E 349.55° R NSW Rural Fire Service (5832) 1208246/1
1095146 427.25 MHz 10K1F9W R NEW SOUTH WALES GOVERNMENT TELECOMMUNICATIONS AUTHORITY (20005985) 1950248/1
1095147 420.0625 MHz 10K1F9W T NEW SOUTH WALES GOVERNMENT TELECOMMUNICATIONS AUTHORITY (20005985) 1950248/1
767006 450.55 MHz 16K0F3E 349.55° T NSW Rural Fire Service (5832)

This is the RFS Site Frequency below you want to take note of and add to you scan list
1095147 420.0625 MHz 10K1F9W T NEW SOUTH WALES GOVERNMENT TELECOMMUNICATIONS AUTHORITY (20005985) 1950248/1

Client No ID: 20005985 - is the NEW SOUTH WALES GOVERNMENT TELECOMMUNICATIONS AUTHORITY ID for the RFS

Use the Map, search for the sites that list "T NEW SOUTH WALES GOVERNMENT TELECOMMUNICATIONS AUTHORITY (20005985)"

Rule out any listing with a "349.55°" bearing, as it will be a "Site Link System", no good to your scanning.

I have found, old Analogue frequencies will be listed in the 413MHz to 419MHz Range.

Newer Up-graded P25 Sites (Frequencies) will be listed in 420MHz Range I have found.

I'm currently up in Far North NSW, and the local RFS is still using an old 419MHz Analogue frequency.

FireGround Frequencies are in the 160-165MHz Range, these's will not be listed to a Single Broadcast site, as they are Licensed State Wide for use on the FireGround between FF's and tanker to Tanker etc,
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Re: Help needed - RFS & SES, Mid Murray (non GRN).

Post by Longreach » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:36 pm

Me personally, I wouldn't waste my time even clicking on the radio reference website, it's billed as God's gift to scanning in the US but most of the info for other countries appears to be either well out of date or not accurate to begin with.
Andrew,
It's not even that great overseas, even in the country that it's based. I think most people have the shits with what that bludger has done with the hobby.

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Re: Help needed - RFS & SES, Mid Murray (non GRN).

Post by poobah » Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:07 pm

Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate all the help. I'm well and truly up and running now. Eliminating all those non Telco frequencies simplified things enormously, and the picture became a lot clearer.

The Unication was a bit of an expense and a steep learning curve (especially as my setup uses hundreds of conventional channels and no trunking), but totally worth it. What an awesome little gadget! I don't miss a thing now. If I can help anyone else get to grips with these I'll be happy to share what I've learned.

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Re: Help needed - RFS & SES, Mid Murray (non GRN).

Post by JAFO » Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:57 am

poobah wrote:(especially as my setup uses hundreds of conventional channels and no trunking)
Poobah,

One thing about the Emergency Services . . . they don't really explain the differences between the Radio Systems that are employed across the State to provide Radio Comm's. Even with us Full-time Member of the Services, the training is basic, and from what I've seen even more basic for Volunteers - keep it simple for simple minded people seems to be the norm.

From memory, with the Motorola Radio's, when you look at your Screen and if you see:
- a 'T' Next to the Signal Strength Metter - The Radio is working on a Simplex or a PMR Repeater System.
- a 'Z' Next to the Signal Strength Metter - The Radio is working on a Trunk Radio System.

Even though it has been NSW Government Policy for the past 20 odd years to merge Government Departments over onto the GRN to save cost rather then Up-grade Individual Departments Radio Systems, there has been bugger all coordination between Gov Departments radio up-grade to achieve this. The recent ACMA Band Plan Realignment Change may have provided the NSW Government with a good opportunity to take it's own policy seriously.

It might be another 5 years or so before you see the GRN active down your part of the State, but as the ACMA Database list Wagga as possibly having a GRN Site . . . who knows . . . it might happen sooner then later.
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