Programming 396T for GRN Zones

criten
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Programming 396T for GRN Zones

Post by criten » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:25 pm

Okay, I have a totally stupid question.

Zones with GRN is something I do not understand at all. Should I be programming a new 'System' for each zone, or does each zone go in the one 'System'?

Reason I ask is, I'm trying to figure out why I sometimes get parts of a conversation even when I'm only scanning GRN... although that could have something to do with operating the radio in a fairly effective faraday cage and varying reception due to atmospherics.

I'm also completely stumped why 416.41/3A0Dh-0027 isn't listed in most control channel lists such as Radio Reference... when I scan for a trunk I pick it up from Explorers Tree. Or why the SID's on some of Explorer's control channels alternate between 3A0Dh-0027 and 5D0Dh-0027

soupbones
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Re: Programming 396T for GRN Zones

Post by soupbones » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:26 am

The 396 has some limitations when it comes to site trunking, unlike the 996. But overall, zones, and the zone ID numbers are irrelevant when it comes to the 396. As long as the base and offsets are correct then the scanner will track sites from any zone in the analogue GRN, as they all share the same base and offset.
Having owned a 396 in the past, there is a couple of ways you can set them up for monitoring GRN. One is to put each site into its own system. That way you can switch from site to site easily.
The other way is to create a site, set it to control channel only mode, and put the control channels you want into this system. Only issue with this, is the way you arrange them. Putting them into site or numerical order will make the scanner lock onto the first control channel it finds, which may not always be the closest or strongest one you want.

As for the issue your having with explorers tree GRN site, you say you are getting it jumping from one zone ID to another on its control channels. Well GRN sites only run one control channel at a time. They have one frequency for the main active one, and a spare frequency which is reserved as a back up control channel, though this does not run unless the other one is shut down for some reason. So i would say you are getting two control channels of two separate GRN sites. Not sure which ones, as the only listing I have for 416.100 is not explorers tree (z1 Site27) or Saddleback (z2 S27) (which is near Kiama) but the aleternate control channel for a small site near Condobolin.
My guess here is that your control channel is off slightly to what you should be hearing, and/or it's getting interference from somewhere. As you don't say your location, it's hard to say what site may be interfering. But here is what you can do. Make sure your scanner has been set for a 12.5kHz step for GRN. Anything else for analogue GRN is wrong and will make your scanner land just off frequency for some channels. Try setting up a custom search bank between say 415.000Mhz and 420.000Mhz with the 12.5kHz step and have a search through. You should here some control channels for the GRN for sure. You will here other data on there such as MPT control channels and data streams for MDT as well. To sort this out set your custom search bank for CC only mode. It should then stop on the GRN control channels and display the zone and site ID's. Depending where you are you will get some of the new digital GRN sites this way as well. Analogue GRN zone have the following ID's

zone 1 = 3A0D
zone 2 = 5D0d
zone 3 = 7D3D (mostly sites in the A.C.T.)

Try that out and jot down all the control channels you can hear. Then make these into systems in your 396 with the correct base and offsets and see how that goes.

criten
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Re: Programming 396T for GRN Zones

Post by criten » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:52 pm

Thanks soup, that basically answered all my questions.

The reason for the alternating SSID in short was due to bad stepping in my scan. I've recently turned to using the 'Trunk Scan' feature to discover control channels, instead of relying on Internet lists. I had my step set to 5khz, not 12.5khz, which meant I tuned to 416.54 instead of 416.5375. So yep, I was receiving two control channels. I feel so silly.

After I corrected that, I seem to receive GRN much better :D

Your suggestion for different systems for different GRN sites does sound like a good idea... Mt Tomah I receive intermittantly and it seems the scanner often ignores its control chan even when its getting a receiveable signal. Although I should upgrade from 1.13.03 to the latest as there are apprently fixes for this... just I don't have a data cable (second hand scanner never came with it).

soupbones
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Re: Programming 396T for GRN Zones

Post by soupbones » Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:41 am

Problem solved, glad to hear it. Putting the sites into system files can make things a little easier with the 396 in my opinion. It all depends on what else you have in your scanner and how many other sites you can receive.

With data cables you can actually get a USB to scanner cable for the 396/996 scanners. A few places in the US sell them and will ship overseas. All you need then is a driver which you can download usually from the places that sell the cables.
Not sure who is doing them these days, but remember... Google is always your friend.

sw sydney scanner
Posts: 106
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Re: Programming 396T for GRN Zones

Post by sw sydney scanner » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:42 pm

soupbones wrote:But here is what you can do. Make sure your scanner has been set for a 12.5kHz step for GRN. Anything else for analogue GRN is wrong and will make your scanner land just off frequency for some channels. Try setting up a custom search bank between say 415.000Mhz and 420.000Mhz with the 12.5kHz step and have a search through. You should here some control channels for the GRN for sure. You will here other data on there such as MPT control channels and data streams for MDT as well. To sort this out set your custom search bank for CC only mode. It should then stop on the GRN control channels and display the zone and site ID's. Depending where you are you will get some of the new digital GRN sites this way as well. Analogue GRN zone have the following ID's

zone 1 = 3A0D
zone 2 = 5D0d
zone 3 = 7D3D (mostly sites in the A.C.T.)

Try that out and jot down all the control channels you can hear. Then make these into systems in your 396 with the correct base and offsets and see how that goes.

FOUND TIHS VERY INTERESTING
Scanner has been set for a 12.5kHz step and auto modulation and also set to c-ch only.
After doing a custom search between 415.0000 and 420.0000 on the 396 and holding on the frequincie for about 5 to 10 minutes i ended up with the following
FREQUINCIE SITE
415.9625 DAT SID:02D1H-0145
416.125 SID:EE40H-0048 ?
SID:3AODH-0048
SID:32F3H-0048 ?
SID:5D0DH-0048
416.25 SID:3AODH-0007
SID:5DODH-0007
SID:323DH-007 ?
SID:32F3H-0007 ?
416.3 SID:3A0DH-0018
SID:32C3H-0018 ?
416.925 DAT SID:02D1H-0105
416.8875 SID:3A0DH-0002
SID:32C3H-0002 ?
417.000 DAT SID:02D1H-0107
417.4625 SID:3A0DH-0045
417.5625 SID:3A0DH-0006
any one tell me where the ? sites are from/who use them or name all the sites. i believe the dat sites are the new p25.
im starting to learn a lot more about the scanner and what it can do?
:D
Thanks sw sydney scanner. Using UBCD396T

soupbones
Posts: 455
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:23 pm

Re: Programming 396T for GRN Zones

Post by soupbones » Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:25 am

You may want to jump over to the Government Radio Network theads to answer this one.

criten
Posts: 270
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Re: Programming 396T for GRN Zones

Post by criten » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:50 pm

sw sydney scanner wrote: any one tell me where the ? sites are from/who use them or name all the sites. i believe the dat sites are the new p25.
im starting to learn a lot more about the scanner and what it can do?
:D
The DAT channels/sites are indeed the 9600bps control chans if they bear 02D1H in the SSID. Be careful with your Step as above, the mistake I made when scanning like this.

Radioreference's page on the GRN lists sites/SSIDs so thats one way to find out. Or you could look them up in ACMA.

Using the trunk scan is how you should be locating control channels used in your GRN config, btw - you just can't believe any bs you read on the interwho. Great to hear you're using it!

sw sydney scanner
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:35 am
Location: sw sydney

Re: Programming 396T for GRN Zones

Post by sw sydney scanner » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:23 pm

[quote="criten"]
The DAT channels/sites are indeed the 9600bps control chans if they bear 02D1H in the SSID. Be careful with your Step as above, the mistake I made when scanning like this.

Radioreference's page on the GRN lists sites/SSIDs so thats one way to find out. Or you could look them up in ACMA.

Using the trunk scan is how you should be locating control channels used in your GRN config, btw - you just can't believe any bs you read on the interwho. Great to hear you're using it!



criten i understand what you are say i was intersted in knowing where the ? sites are located .
and who may use them
Thanks sw sydney scanner. Using UBCD396T

centralcoastscanman
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Re: Programming 396T for GRN Zones

Post by centralcoastscanman » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:01 pm

who may use any grn site.. put simply any user that is on the nswgrn

there are some exceptions or there used to be that apparently the railcorp transits could not access certain grn sites..

http://www.grn.nsw.gov.au/ is your friend

Longreach
Posts: 1085
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:38 pm
Location: Goulburn NSW

Re: Programming 396T for GRN Zones

Post by Longreach » Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:59 pm

same goes for Energy Aust. certain channels are only allowed access to certain GRN sites.
cheers
VK2MRC

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