GRN Costs and Access (Usage)

[scanSydney]

Over the last few weeks, I've been hearing conflicting ideas and theories on how the GRN works, in terms of usage. Hopefully someone here knows the actual answers to the following questions, because I haven't heard a certain answer yet!

1) Does it cost to transmit, and does it cost to change channel and affiliate a talkgroup to a site near you? I've heard things such as 2c every PTT, to a flat rate of $20/month for the radio and that's it. Not sure about affiliating costs though.

2) If a radio is deactivated from GRN (i.e. many RFS radios), does it still cost anything to access the GRN (such as setting it to a GRN channel)?

3) I've noticed that despite a radio being deactivated from the GRN, you can still listen to the GRN channels, but obviously not transmit (just a long beep when PTT is pushed in). I've heard that if the radio is deactivated from the GRN and you are listening, it's because someone else in the area with a GRN activated radio is affiliating the talkgroup to the site, not you. If the talkgroup isn't active on the site, too bad to you. Correct?

That's about it at this point.

Cheers.

[soupbones]

Over the last few weeks, I've been hearing conflicting ideas and theories on how the GRN works, in terms of usage. Hopefully someone here knows the actual answers to the following questions, because I haven't heard a certain answer yet!

1) Does it cost to transmit, and does it cost to change channel and affiliate a talkgroup to a site near you? I've heard things such as 2c every PTT, to a flat rate of $20/month for the radio and that's it. Not sure about affiliating costs though.

Yes it does cost. Mal would be the one to answer the details of the exact cost. I do believe every PTT inn cures a cost.

2) If a radio is deactivated from GRN (i.e. many RFS radios), does it still cost anything to access the GRN (such as setting it to a GRN channel)?
I doubt it.

3) I've noticed that despite a radio being deactivated from the GRN, you can still listen to the GRN channels, but obviously not transmit (just a long beep when PTT is pushed in). I've heard that if the radio is deactivated from the GRN and you are listening, it's because someone else in the area with a GRN activated radio is affiliating the talkgroup to the site, not you. If the talkgroup isn't active on the site, too bad to you. Correct?

Can I ask how you know what happens with a deactivated radio? They get deactivated usually because they are pirated and contain a radio ID that is already on the network elsewhere or an ID that does not belong on th TG it affiliates with.
Far as I know, deactivated means you get no TX or RX on GRN.

That's about it at this point.

Cheers.

[scanSydney]

Can I ask how you know what happens with a deactivated radio? They get deactivated usually because they are pirated and contain a radio ID that is already on the network elsewhere or an ID that does not belong on th TG it affiliates with.
Far as I know, deactivated means you get no TX or RX on GRN.

Sorry, by deactivated, I mean you can't TX. For example, my local RFS district office must have 'turned off' our radio ID's (or told the NOCC to deactivate them) for all our appliance radios. When we change to our home GRN channel (we use VOTE) and try to TX, we get a long beep and can't transmit. I imagine most RFS appliance radios act the same way seeing PMR seems the go around NSW.

[alphamike]

The same with the RFS vehicles in my station/district.
We use the PMR network and if we change to GRN it wont let us transmit.

I've been told we changed back to PMR because of the costs, and the fact we were constantly locked out of the network due to not enough slots.
And i believe it does cost every time you transmit.
Although we can switch it back on in about 3 minutes, this is done from firecomm.

Although we can change to radio over to OPS COM2 which is a scan group, and it will happily let us listen in on that.

[scanSydney]

The same with the RFS vehicles in my station/district.
We use the PMR network and if we change to GRN it wont let us transmit.

I've been told we changed back to PMR because of the costs, and the fact we were constantly locked out of the network due to not enough slots.
And i believe it does cost every time you transmit.
Although we can switch it back on in about 3 minutes, this is done from firecomm.

Although we can change to radio over to OPS COM2 which is a scan group, and it will happily let us listen in on that.

Yeah, exactly the same with us. Gotta love OPS COM2. Makes a good listen on warm days.

[JAFO]

Guys,

It does not sound like Individual Radio’s are being Deactivated off the GRN, more that the TalkGroup is being “Temporally Deactivated” – to force you to use your Zone PMR Network and save your Zone on some GRN related Costs.

My understanding is, organisation must still pay a monthly affiliation fee for every radio that is affiliate to the GRN. TalkGroups allocated to organisations can be switched on and off by organisations by request to the GRN HelpDesk. By switching off your RFS GRN TalkGroup, your RFS Zone can save on some GRN related Cost.

But your appliance radios are still authorised to affiliate to the GRN, as if they were not you would not be able to change channel to OPS COM2 and listen in.

Blue Mountains RFS use to have very poor PMR coverage on Sydney Side of Lapstone Hill, so when ever lower Blue Mountains RFS Appliances had calls in that direction, they would ask for Blue Mountains GRN Channel to be activated, as the GRN provided much better radio coverage, a little different today with a PMR Site located at Horsley Park.

[scanSydney]

My understanding is, organisation must still pay a monthly affiliation fee for every radio that is affiliate to the GRN. TalkGroups allocated to organisations can be switched on and off by organisations by request to the GRN HelpDesk. By switching off your RFS GRN TalkGroup, your RFS Zone can save on some GRN related Cost.

But your appliance radios are still authorised to affiliate to the GRN, as if they were not you would not be able to change channel to OPS COM2 and listen in.

So my understanding is, they're still paying GRN for access to the network, but they're not paying for affiliating costs (due to all TG's being switched off to us), correct?

[JAFO]

So my understanding is, they're still paying GRN for access to the network, but they're not paying for affiliating costs (due to all TG's being switched off to us), correct?

The way I understand it, access to the GRN is “Affiliating” a Radio to the Network.

So they (your RFS Zone) still pays a monthly affiliation fee per Radio within the Zone, otherwise you would not be able to monitor the OPS COM2 Channel. This may be a requirement of the NSW RFS, incase your appliance is sent on a Task Force where GRN Channels are being used.

What your RFS Zone may be doing, is saving on the cost of your Zone’s Allocated GRN Channel being Active, by having your Zone’s Allocated GRN Channel being being made Temporally Inactive or on standby as to say. This may attract a lesser fee then if the TalkGroup was still active but not being used - i.e. your primary Comm's is on the Zones PMR System.

For RFS Zones well outside the GRN Footprint, say out at Wentworth in the States South West for instance, you may find that Appliance Radio’s out their may not even be registered for access to the GRN, as the possibilities of those appliances ever working within a GRN Footprint area would be very remote. But this would not stop the Zone Management just ringing up the GRN HelpDesk and having Radio’s granted access by just giving the Radio’s ID Number to the GRN HelpDesk to activate radio affiliation to the network.

[cartman]

My understanding of it (from the mid 90's) is that there is a flat fee per month per radio
If you have "0" diailing capability then there are additional costs per radio per month depending on usage
GRN radio to GRN radio cost nothing
If wanted radios taken off or added there was a flat fee per radio
If you were deemed an emergency organisation the rate per radio was about half the normal rate
It may have changed since but that was roughly it in the beginning


Grant

[system_tech]

Hi folks

Grant (Cartman) is pretty much correct.

Everyone else, you have heard a few urban myths, perpetuated by those who have a beef about the network. 14 years later the same "stories" are still getting around.

Since the beginning of GRN, charges have been:

- Monthly "flat" access charge, which allows full tx/rx and use of any number of talkgroups.

Outer budget agencies (ie those that generally make there own revenue) - highest charge

Inner budget agencies (ie those which are direct treasury funded, including full time emerency services) - mid level charge

RFS / SES (primarily volunteer agencies) lowest charge


- Telephone Interconnect - small extra monthly charge + call fees

Myth: having more talkgroups cost extra
Truth: no.

Myth: Airtime billing ie charge per tx time or PTT
Truth: Does not and never has existed

However, RFS has arrangement call Out Of Footprint
where radios not in GRN coverage are fully connected ie rx/tx but no charge made, unless a radio PTTs.
Originally designed to have units & radios ready to assist in GRN coverage areas urgently without having contact the NOCC and connect the radios on the database.

The radios with RX a talkgroup if they are not enabled / connected to the system. As suggested above you will get an error tone if you TX. There are are no charges for just being able to listen, as it will happen anyway!

s-t