Trunk88

[system_tech]

`Some further info re RID 1 (actually) 700001

* it was at one time an actual valid radio ID for an agency.

* it is not a valid ID any more (ie no radio in the systen database with that RID).

* as suggested it is a default RID in the RSS / CPS.

* radios don't actually know they are not vaild, they'll try and affiliate, and the system rejects it.

* radios that do not affiliate will still rx but will only hear calls for heir selected talkgroup .. IF and ONLY IF that talkgroup is active on the site the radio is listening to, ie another radio (or radios) is affilaited to the site in question and taking / making calls.

* when you stun (proper term: inhibit) a radio, you can ONLY stun it if it is on the system database already.
ie it must have a valid record and then the radio must them be affiliated .. so the sytem knows where it is .. to stun it.

* non-affilated radios are not normally a problem as they can't be tx'd with (you will get the "barp" error tone) and do not interfere with anyone.

[astro_boy]

Ah, Thanks for all that info System_tech !

So it sounds like they cannot do much about the ID 1 radios trying to join.

But they dont do much anyhow, apart from listen.

Cheers

[BerryV]

Ah, Thanks for all that info System_tech !

So it sounds like they cannot do much about the ID 1 radios trying to join.

But they dont do much anyhow, apart from listen.

Cheers

Very easy solution, activate the ID 70001 in the GRN database, then all these radios everywhere that have that programmed ID in the radio will now affiliate with the GRN.

I know for a fact that several radios can be programmed with the same ID at the same time.(This happened after a programming stuff-up on some RFS radios ) and still be active on the network.

Each day, send a few Inhibit commands to ID 70001. It won't take long for a large QTY of those radios to become bricked!.

[centralcoastscanman]

if the radio is not interfering with the functioning of the grn repeaters then no need to stun/inhibit the radio id then is there ?

[ivahri]

You can program a thousand radios with the same active ID but only ONE is actually functional at any one time. That is why cloned radios are such a serious risk to the safety of legitimate users of the network. Imagine your butt was on the line & someone switched on another radio with your ID? Suddenly your radio doesn't work...

Cheers,


Richard

Ah, Thanks for all that info System_tech !

So it sounds like they cannot do much about the ID 1 radios trying to join.

But they dont do much anyhow, apart from listen.

Cheers

Very easy solution, activate the ID 70001 in the GRN database, then all these radios everywhere that have that programmed ID in the radio will now affiliate with the GRN.

I know for a fact that several radios can be programmed with the same ID at the same time.(This happened after a programming stuff-up on some RFS radios ) and still be active on the network.

Each day, send a few Inhibit commands to ID 70001. It won't take long for a large QTY of those radios to become bricked!.

[system_tech]

Richard is correct about cloned IDs. Definitely a serious danger.

The radio that last communicated with the system seizes control, and it turns into a ping pong match, bad news.

Example (assuming 2 radios each with the same RID):

Radio A: selects TG xyz. radio does that. user thinks he is listening to TG xyz.

Radio B: affiliates and is on TG abc. system goes, oh, ok, change talkgroup, radio B has control and is listening to TG abc. Radio A won't hear a thing on TG xyz.

Radio A. user thinks, gee talkgroup us quiet, changes TG up, down and back to TG xyz, or simply turns radio off then on. System goes oh ok, go back to TG xyz. radio B goes deaf.

Radio B. user thinks oh, this tg is quiet, fiddles with channel selector or switches radio off then on, system goes, oh ok, change talkgroup back to abc. Radio A goes deaf.

Radio A. user thinks "bloody stupid radio" and starts to change tg etc .. and onwards with the ping pong game.

PS the system doesn't care what sites the radios are on, if its 2 different sites, you have simply moved er yes quickly but the system can't tell that.

In the past I have proven cloned IDs by looking at affliation records .. when you see something like this its obvious:

00:01 - radio 700001 affiliates to site X, tg 123

00:02 - radio 700001 affiliates to site A, (200km from site X), tg 999

00:09 - radio 700001 affiliates to site X, tg 123

00:15 - radio 700001 affiliates to site A, (200km from site X), tg 999

etc etc

at one stage an agency had 100 + radios all with the same ID. Was heaps of fun tracing this

[cartman]

And from my observation on Unitrunker and now on Trunk88 (it is even more obvious there), that is what some devious folk are doing .... pinching legitimate id's while the real user is actually active on the system .... it is that obvious that a non-technical person like me can even see it by looking at radio listings and affiliation details

Grant

[system_tech]

Yes, a problem that I'm very sure is occurring, didn't want to say too much, I'm just hoping that all of you folk who can see RIDs (scanner, trunker etc) are not also the same people programing radios.

The transition to P25 should hopefully eliminate this issue, RID structure will start from scratch and the CPS / RSS will have stricter management with Ikeys etc so you just can't get the radio, some CPS and go for it, you will need an appropriate Ikey as well.

Unfortunately, some govt management type of people stuck their hed back in the sand when this issue was pointed out to them a few years ago, it has taken a while for them to "understand".

[ivahri]

I think you are right about them "sticking their heads in the sand" about this. A few of us are now making a lot of noise about this problem and despite a few mumbling their displeasure the IKeys are being tightened right up on the P25 side. I can program my agency's tgs and IDs but no-one else's without their consent... and my Ikey will not let me do it either. So if there are dodgy people out there they are only going to be able to stuff up their own agency's radios... So yes it has taken too long but we are getting there.

Cheers,


Richard

[cartman]

Yes, a problem that I'm very sure is occurring, didn't want to say too much, I'm just hoping that all of you folk who can see RIDs (scanner, trunker etc) are not also the same people programing radios.....".

It is like everything in life ... there is a sanctified use of something (paint = commercial artist) and an unsanctified use (paint = graffitti offender).
But I see you point about the misuse of the compilation of such information ... suffice to say i am a radio scanner fanatic in the sense that i am interested in all radio traffic especially callsigns, talkgroups and frequencies and to that extent compiling rids, talkgroups etc helps you understand who is who in the zoo (so to speak)
In fact I have annoyed some people on this and others forum by publishing too much of the same who see it as a waste of bandwidth, rather than add to what is known
And my lack of interest / ability in technical issues is fairly well known by some folk ... i even pay somebody a small amount to programme my scanners.
Suffice to say i will be keeping a lot of this information to myself.
The point i was trying to make is that the folk who are involved (and you can bet your life there are towies somewhere at the bottom of it) are so blatant that enthusiasts can see their illegal practices.


Grant
PS It was a pity that the olympics radio network wasn't used as springboard to the basis or start of a better radio system instead of the radio gear getting sold to the Northern Territory where I understand a 468Mhz encrypted ASTRO trunking system is in use in Darwin and Alice Springs.

(While we are talking about SORN I would appreciate if anybody who has talkgroup information on the SORN network ie talkgroup numbers and functional use ... I am happy to hear from ... frequency & tower site info has been published publically by the ACMA). I can share my information .... I was involved in the athlete bus network transfers including opening and closing ceremonies)