Help needed - RFS & SES, Mid Murray (non GRN).

[poobah]

Thanks for the continued help guys, but it might be getting a little wide of where I'm at!

I'm not actually using the G3 to scan the whole 400-470MHz range - I was just trying to describe this thing for anyone who was unfamiliar with them and curious how they operate. I have programmed in all my local frequencies and it is doing a ripper job. It'll run all day on a single charge and it sounds just like an APX.

My issue with trying to identify frequencies is that these things can't be programmed on the fly - I have to preprogram it with all the frequencies and functionality I want before I leave the house. I was looking for clues on how to narrow down the large number of RFS and SES assignments listed on the ACMA site, especially for areas that I plan to travel to.

It seems like (at least around here) both the RFS and SES are using GTA assignments for firecom/state ops rather than their own 'self-titled' ones, but I don't know if that's true state-wide.

[tsunami_australia]

For RFS and SES that are off the GRN there is a few sites with all the listings. For GRN the older control channel frequencies are listed in a few places but the new ones are not as yet.

[Bigfella237]

The best thing you could do is take note of all the channels from an actual RFS radio, that will tell you what is used in any given area (a rough idea anyway), then find what BaseTX freqs are associated with those channels and confirm those freqs are present in that area from the ACMA database.

All my info is way out of date now but there were a few websites around that had detailed information. I've even seen whole RFS codeplugs turn up every now and then, but you would need the appropriate Motorola CPS to open them and that's a whole 'nuther can 'o worms!

Andrew

[tsunami_australia]

Apologies if offsite linking to other similar sites is out (can't find it here though) but if you look at the P25 listings here in the link you'll see the channels for each region that isn't on the GRN. There have been a few updates to the codeplugs in the last 12 months but I think that's more to do with GRN expansion adding new controller frequencies etc. So most of the info will be applicable to your area still eg "420.01250 427.25000 VL2OR BM 264 NAC s062 RFS PMR S062 RFS PMR M MRY - Moama P25 Fire Dispatch"

In the list you want the frequency column not input.

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/ ... =1030#cats

[poobah]

I've been taking radioreference with a pinch of salt - out of the handful of RFS frequencies I've been able to check, one had some digits mixed up, and another was just plain wrong. And the SES page doesn't list any of several frequencies I have actually confirmed, so I don't know what is going on there, maybe it is just out of date?

How can I get the frequencies from an APX? I've had a look through the onboard menu and didn't find anything that looked promising. I don't have any cables, software or experience to go further, and besides, I'm REALLY reluctant to do too much amateur brain surgery on a brand new RFS radio!

I think until I find reliable info to the contrary, I'm going to work on the assumption that both services are now using GTA frequencies where they exist. Hopefully I'll be able to test that further in the next couple of weeks.

[poobah]

Further question - possibly a dumb one - are GTA assignments essentially the GRN?

If so that would mean the infrastructure is already in place here, and the frequencies are being used, just not yet configured into the wider network. It would also explain why there are two lots of frequencies for each agency, and maybe make it a bit easier to figure out what's likely in other areas.

[Bigfella237]

No, in that respect think of the GRN as just another agency (like fire or ambo) and the Telco Authority is just (supposedly) managing the licencing side of things for them as with (almost) all the other agencies.

The Telco Authority licences each agency's frequencies under a separate ACMA Client ID. If searching the ACMA database, click on the Client ID and in the trading name it usually specifies which agency the licences are for.





Now if you search the ACMA for licences under that specific Client ID ("20005985" for example) you will see all the assignments listed for that agency alone.

With regard to reading the codeplug from an RFS radio, well, let's just say nothing is impossible but for your situation it wouldn't be worth the investment (in either gear, software or time).

You could get the BaseRX (uplink) frequencies by simply transmitting on each channel and scanning the range, but I wouldn't recommend it as you may cause interference and as above you'll only get the uplink freqs, which aren't really much use to you when scanning anyway.

Me personally, I wouldn't waste my time even clicking on the radio reference website, it's billed as God's gift to scanning in the US but most of the info for other countries appears to be either well out of date or not accurate to begin with.

Andrew

[tsunami_australia]

Poohab I think you may be getting confused and usually RR is good with the frequency listings. The 2 frequencies you speak of could be tx and rx of the tower?

"How can I get the frequencies from an APX? " FORGET IT! You NEED a copy of the ASK (Advanced System Key) they use for auth and to lock everything down. It is NOT going to happen regardless of your software or leads!

You need to either roll with spending hours on the ACMA database and learning what to look for OR roll with what the likes of RR have on offer. There is no other option for updated codeplugs. Even my RFS profile in my radios (not RFS originated rather one I made) is getting old though it still works on PMR, still has the more reasant GRN talkgroups and only really needs an update to split geo areas due to the limitation on the number of possible controller frequencies in it.

If you are not happy with RR's listing and cannot find another you will have to walk the walk yourself or get used to using limit search 400-430meg.

[Scotty]

It won’t be difficult to find all the PMR frequencies for the RFS and SES vote groups around you.

Use the ACMA database (or better yet for this exercise, maprad.io) and search for the Client ID (as explained by Bigfella) for both services.

View the frequencies associated with each Client ID using the map feature and zoom in around your area. When you find a frequency, note the repeater RX (input) frequency.

As most emergency services use a common input frequency for each vote group, you can then use the map to do a frequency search on the input frequency, and that will give you all the associated repeater TX frequencies. These will be the frequencies in the vote group, and the frequencies you should program in for each RFS channel.

There is an older RFS (and SES) profile on the site. That may be a good place to start as well.

[poobah]

Thanks again guys, but please believe me when I say I'm well acquainted with the ACMA database and I've spent hours (days in fact, thanks Covid) sifting through page after page of data, loading it into Excel and manipulating the mother of all spreadsheets!

I have no problem finding, lets say, RFS Tx frequencies. I might find 8 of them in a small town. Maybe 2 or 3 of them are Telco (RFS) and the rest are just plain RFS. I know one of those is the pager. So I have 7 RFS frequencies, but I know that 'firecom' traffic will only be on one of them. In the 3 or 4 neighbouring towns I've been to since I got the G3, I've identified that the main firecom channel is always on one of those Telco frequencies. I assume the other frequencies are a mix of extra capacity for a local command structure during larger events (which I don't care about), and perhaps some old legacy frequencies that haven't yet been relinquished.

So I guess what I was hoping for are any patterns, background info or clues that will help me narrow down which frequencies I should be interested in when I visit towns further afield. Is it likely to be true that when Telco (RFS) assignments exist in a town, I can rule out the old 'RFS' ones? At least in certain regions, if not the whole state? Obviously I could preprogram separate RFS and SES scans for each town - it's what I've done locally - but it's a lot of work to do that for a big road trip or an out-of-area deployment so I'm hoping to find useful ways to sort the wheat from the chaff.

The Radio Reference data has been somewhat useful when it comes to the RFS - it definitely contains some errors, but when I compare the listed frequency with what the ACMA says actually exists, I can often figure out a match.

The SES info though simply bears no relation to the real world - it lists whole ranges of frequencies that don't exist within hundreds of kms, and has only one of the handful of live frequencies that I've found. I'm guessing either the network has had a major change since that info was current, or something unfortunate happened to the data.

I also still don't really understand (sorry Bigfella, you tried to enlighten me but I'm not sure whether you confirmed or rejected my theory) whether the NSW Telco Authority assignments are indeed "the GRN", or if they are separate channels unconnected to the GRN that they are just managing? Will the GRN show up in an ACMA search as something else when it is rolled out?

Sorry for all the questions (and the WoT), I feel like I've got just enough of an understanding to be getting a bit frustrated at all the stuff I don't understand