NSW RFS Talkgroups

RFS, SES, SLSA, VRA, SJA
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tsunami_australia
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NSW RFS Talkgroups

Post by tsunami_australia » Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:29 am

Just listening to the fires in the Lower Hunter and they told the helitaks to go over to TG42 however all the listings I've seen stop at around TG39 somewhere. Has anyone got an updated listing of GRN talkgroups for all 4 areas (especially east at least)? I've been going through bringing my GRN rx up to scratch since GRN will be here in the next couple of years but have seen nothing in my recent works of TG's in the 40s for east.

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Re: NSW RFS Talkgroups

Post by col05_au » Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:24 pm

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=6943

10069 2755 D TG42 OPS 12 Special Operations/Training 12

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Re: NSW RFS Talkgroups

Post by cartman » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:56 pm

Looks like the main talkgroup in use for the Nelson Bay fire area is TG 10058 - Operations 1
I am listening off Horsley Park (Site 145) on my Uniden 396
Some activity on TG 10030 Tactical Air Support 1 including the RFS rep at Richmond Air Base
Reference was made to the fireground channel as being eG036 = TG 20026 which is occasionally appearing on Site 145
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tsunami_australia
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Re: NSW RFS Talkgroups

Post by tsunami_australia » Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:15 pm

Interesting Cartman I kept hearing them tell everyone that the dispatch TG was 31 which IS the Lower Hunter dispatch channel and what I was listening on. I heard them chasing helitaks off it as they were "talking on the dispatch channel". If you're hearing them at HP then state ops must be monitoring to create the affiliation.

Col any ideas where the talkgroups fit together here, as in does the FIU, specops etc sit/next in the NSEW zones or in their own zone? I could find out but won't be in to comms till Friday next week and haven't had enough time to be naughty boy with a lead read. I'm not used to the GRN yet so hadn't thought of the specops channels. My XTS mimmicks to a certain extent the RFS portables and has all the info for the PMR (clicked rx only of course but if ever needed it's a 30second fix) however I'm not sure I'm still working on the likewise for GRN but of course using NAS it isn't necessarily as easy.

EDIT ... ok I see there is a difference between TG31 and eG31. I was listening on eG31 but they were telling strike crews for some reason to use TG31 of which the pair were somehow strapped. They seem to be a lot more advanced with a lot more knowhow than most or all around here for that sort of thing :( most here seem to barely know how to patch in an out the different radios on the consoles and many if not most are too scared to touch anything but the volume knob (frustrating as their fear element holds back everything and everyone).

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Re: NSW RFS Talkgroups

Post by Scotty » Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:55 pm

tsunami_australia wrote:If you're hearing them at HP then state ops must be monitoring to create the affiliation.
An on-going issue on that site TA. Horsley Park seems to regularly be full during operations due to State Ops.

http://scansydney.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1596

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tsunami_australia
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Re: NSW RFS Talkgroups

Post by tsunami_australia » Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:26 pm

HMM "with many TG's not related to Sydney using up valuable space on the site" ... welll DUH it's a operations management/state HQ for an ENTIRE state so of course it's not only going to be Sydney (easily avoided by forcing RFS off the GRN back to 100% P25 vote networks all over the state and running IP links from bridges back to HQ). But that comes back to poor management and the couldn't give a F attitude of the government, shitloads of money to throw at unnecessary police encryption at a time when it's needed the least (they have MDT, ANPRS and iPads FFS) but lets not give 2 rats butts about the rest of the services and claim we've no money for emergency services (ooops threw it all at the greedy dumb ass coppers).

The morons that build and run the GRN know this is an issue and why it is yet won't do anything to rectify it so the blame for the massive oversight is from the GRN mob.

The way the RFS operate now they need a lot of the space when shits hitting the fan all over the state and thank your state government for that. Things like Tathra happen, the politicians rather than helping just jump up and down and make a noise which causes a whipping chain all the way down to the volunteers getting abused for the Fups made by others, lack of resources, lack of training and more. This in turn makes more volunteers walk off forever in disgust and exacerbates the situation. I know personally that all the local comms brigades for RFS have lost over half their members and are at risk of not being able to function (insufficient members) from the we don't give a shit attitude thrown from above. All the crap that's been caused by hollow polis and greedy lazy paid staff has caused centralisation (central dispatch) which in turn has been used to dump on volunteers and exacerbate things meaning RFS no longer has a choice but to pull a lot of air time and it's only going to get worse ... MUCH worse.

BigFella had the right idea, a direct IP feed to the NOCC would have made a LOT of sense or even their own site perhaps to stop them slaving off others. However as usual with the government it's not my job of the year awards and everyone needs to work with the scraps that's left over. This is the pennance you all have for bringing in and relying on the mismanaged GRN.

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NSW RFS Talkgroups

Post by Scotty » Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:17 pm

tsunami_australia wrote:The morons that build and run the GRN know this is an issue and why it is yet won't do anything to rectify it so the blame for the massive oversight is from the GRN mob.

...

BigFella had the right idea, a direct IP feed to the NOCC would have made a LOT of sense or even their own site perhaps to stop them slaving off others. However as usual with the government it's not my job of the year awards and everyone needs to work with the scraps that's left over. This is the pennance you all have for bringing in and relying on the mismanaged GRN.
The “morons” aren’t the ones that build and run the GRN - it's the NSW RFS having a bunch of individual portable or mobile radios located in Homebush tuned into talkgroups elsewhere in the state, tying up limited resources on the local Sydney site. The network itself is operating exactly as designed, but it is not being used by the NSW RFS in a way that is intended.

NSW Ambulance, Fire & Rescue NSW, NSW SES and the NSW Police (to only a limited extent at the moment) can all interconnect correctly to the GRN from their consoles to talkgroups all over the state, without tying up local resources. It is solely the irresponsible use of portable and mobile radios by the RFS at State HQ that is causing the issue.

The GRN are building a site at/near Homebush HQ, which will elevate some of the issues - but it is a somewhat band aid solution that should be corrected by the RFS connecting properly to the network.

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tsunami_australia
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Re: NSW RFS Talkgroups

Post by tsunami_australia » Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:19 pm

I agree that there should be a direct interconnect from the RFS to the GRN perhaps with their own LIPD interface or something too if nothing else but to elleviate the strain. THAT SAID however the issue would have come from mis-communication and mismanagement from both and if the GRN NOCC knew it was an issue should have designed something (perhaps an interconect) around it. Ultimately the GRN is to accomodate to the needs of the government users but they haven't. Argue all you like but the way they've been forced to operate the RFS needs to have all the areas monitored now.

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NSW RFS Talkgroups

Post by Scotty » Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:48 am

tsunami_australia wrote:Ulltimately the GRN is to accomodate to the needs of the government users but they haven't. Argue all you like but the way they've been forced to operate the RFS needs to have all the areas monitored now.
The GRN, specifically the Horsley Park site, more than adequately accommodates the needs of all the users in the area that the site is intended to cover. Anybody monitoring via UniTrunker, etc is able to see that. That site is not intended to be accessed by a network user in the way the RFS does. The RFS users seem to not understand how a wide-area trunked system operates when using a portable or mobile radio, likely believing that ‘receiving only’ does not affect resources. It is a training issue with the RFS, not a network issue with the GRN.

No one “forced” the RFS to operate with a central dispatch or from a single operations centre - that is a decision solely of the RFS. You have been vocal in your opposition of both. The onus is however on the RFS to ensure that they implement their operational choices correctly and in doing so, don't adversely affect other network users.

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Re: NSW RFS Talkgroups

Post by tsunami_australia » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:24 am

Actually they were pressured I think you will find to start central dispatch though it will never work as they don't have enough employees when the shit hits the fan to manage OR they'll have spares sitting by with nothing to do. There has been a lot of shit handed down from some mismanagement by both fire services resulting in some rather big Fups. Those up high seem to think that because FRNSW can operate like that then the RFS can .... BIG difference in the number of appliances, areas covered, training levels on many different areas like the radio etc. Hell many brigades STILL can't create a "control" and many in town still haven't read the manual and think that the fireground channels for use are to be set by those in the field rather than comms (don't get me started there on ignorance and poor training in radio).

I'm personally against central dispatch as a full on solution ... it's been abused by the paid staff here. They were bitching about how they've had injuries looking for the radio at night etc (I ask why they weren't preparred) and ok we were fine with night time control being sent over to the central dispatch and understood it. Though they didn't only do that they forced amalgamations, claimed they were having to keep council borders but STILL have some areas outside of council bounds then forced CD and told everyone to go home they basically weren't needed any more ... 1 day a week per brigade. That went down like a lead balloon and more than half the membership of all the comms brigades walked within a 2-3 week period. I tried to argue the point of training level and other things but was told "no this is how it's going to be and that's that". They weren't even open to dialogue.

I agree the RFS is likely being greedy with how they are now running and they alike any government agency are afraid to communicate. But also when the NOCC saw the usage trends (as they SHOULD at least) then they should have made a move to elleviate the issue by creating some limits (not sure how that would go down), forcing some yagi redirection to share the sites (not sure why they didn't do that but they've made some big cockups in the past with their radios so no surprise) and looking at a direct IP interconnect. Ok I'll say it's not the fault of one as I get what you're saying but it is still the fault of both as neither has bothered to make a move quick enough to sort the issue.

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