VRA on RFS network

RFS, SES, SLSA, VRA, SJA
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Re: VRA on RFS network

Post by news » Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:47 am

Scotty wrote:
JAFO wrote:You need to really open your eyes mate . . . the Government dosn't care about funding our Emergency Services fully . . . if they did, that 70% insurance Funding they collect . . . in today terms . . . it would probable fund all our NSW Emergency Services correctly and still some.
On the contrary, I would suggest ALL Government emergency services in NSW are very well funded, regardless if the funding comes from levies or consolidated funds and regardless of them being permanent or volunteer services. In 2011 emergency services in NSW were by far the best funded in Australia, and I doubt this has changed over the last 6 years.

To suggest policies and procedures in place within an organisation are a result of the Government 'not caring', when those very policies and procedures are written by the organisation, doesn't really make sense. The powers that be within that organisation should be the ones taking the hit.

But yes, this is well off topic.
Agree on this as well. Plenty of funding floating around. just some voices heard more than others.

To keep on topic, JAFO, my eyes are very wide open. are you suggesting that I book in at specsavers ? feel free to explain and provide a valid explanation for the original topic. Forget the other crap. Why should a voluntary rescue organisation that hold critical road rescue accreditation be expected to find their own funding and install their own communication systems. Put simply, It's an absolute disgrace.

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tsunami_australia
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Re: VRA on RFS network

Post by tsunami_australia » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:19 pm

Hi all, this is probably my first post and not likely nice by some standards. To hell with the idea of a combined emergency services model!!! That is ridiculous and could not be achieved even if they wanted it as that would require paid staff for NSW for ALL the tiny little nooks and crannies (why do you think so much is still voluntary??).

VRA are about as good as finished in many places and I believe NSWFR are beating down the door here to take over the job of crash rescue. VRA 20 years ago was rejecting members with a "you will have to wait till someone dies to have a vacancy" attitude where now they are screaming out for members and about to go under (no sympathy from me).

As for VRA on the RFS network, anyone who thinks that is a good idea is either not sound of mind, never really listened to the radio network in an emergency or both. Speaking from experience we recently had a LOT of activity here a month ago with houses lost. We were that busy that any calls related to other agencies would have promptly been told to bugger off. We had in many cases a line up of tankers trying to make contact about decent legitimate issues, having one more service want to use it for a road accident somewhere would have resulted in harsh words and actions. I'm not picking on the VRA there in particular because I don't like them but ANY group.

Since we've had 4 council areas amalgamated for the RFS system here (it's a bloody joke as they rambled on about "we have to continue to stick to council boundaries as we are still council funded" but then didn't break ties with the existing team member who is not amalgamated at council level either ... enough there) our radio network can (and has done) go from a whisper to a raging inferno at the drop of a hat. One avo I was on duty we end up with near a whole council area activated at several incidents none of which were pre-existing from handover. One of the challenges become logistics on WHO to page that could make the trip in under an hour if anyone could and listen out for resources being released from elsewhere (that odd one or two) that could be redirected. If I remember correctly it was a weekend so there were maybe 3-4 of us plus the group officer/supervisor.

Now sure there will be many silent times on the network but when it's so volatile it could not be counted upon via another service and being a closed net would not be permitted either. There was a recent major crackdown on even flanking here due to the amount of activity.

Sorry to sound like a crank on my first but I had to get that rant out, over and done with ... and please don't get me started on the central dispatch disgrace.

gus289
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Re: VRA on RFS network

Post by gus289 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:02 am

Its just not the Austalian way to tell someone to bugger of in an emegency. I dont think anybody in the VRA would be calling on the network unless urgent life threatening when its so busy. I think its in the spirit of community service that the RFS would allow the VRA to access their radio network. If the proper radio sops
are followed eg moving to the fire ground channel to communicate with incident controllers or others involved it will help keep the network clear for urgent calls for help.

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tsunami_australia
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Re: VRA on RFS network

Post by tsunami_australia » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:57 am

Proper sops or not the primary pmr becomes extremely tied up in s44 with several large incidents running and a half dozen aircraft.

The RFS channels wouldn't work for them anyway as they aren't always linked and hunter links to marine rescue at night. VRA have their own 77meg repeater here anyway.

Yes one would hope they wouldn't call in peak times but there would be no time or chance for them to use the system when busy coupled with a controlled net situation it isn't compatible for what was suggested.

As for the bugger off there were a number of units here recently were told off for not waiting when told and tromping blues and reds with yellows when told to wait. It would be the same anywhere and I'm sure those who've worked in comms would relate. "X brigade 7 blue" followed by "y brigade 1 yellow" immediately after. "Stand by y brigade 1 go ahead x 7" *y brigade ignores and jumps on for a long message about going to get fuel via somewhere and blah blah*. Meanwhile x brigade has news about a well going flare up with potential impact to propery. You get enough of that crap you will bite anyone not adhering to strict controlled net rules. Even worse when trying to get resources to divert to a structure fire or put out a safety warning (power lines down etc) and some brigade doesn't want to wait because they think we sit around doing nothing other than talking. And yes I've been on both sides I was an active firefighter for 15years before health took me off the fireground permanently and damn I miss it.

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Bigfella237
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Re: VRA on RFS network

Post by Bigfella237 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:16 pm

Everything you mention above comes down to training and there is very little comms training at the BF level, newer members usually pickup more by observing the older members and frankly the radio etiquette of some older members leaves a lot to be desired... copy so far!

I used to stress upon those I was training that listening was more important than talking, but some people get nervous or excited when using the "mainframe" and all reason goes out the window...

Our brigade was out on a HR one Sunday when "EMERGENCY, EMERGENCY, EMERGENCY" came blaring over the radio from a neighbouring brigade, we just had time to pile into the cat 1 when we found out it was somebody at BF training that had picked up the wrong mic!

So circling back to my point, if VRA members were trained in RFS lingo there would essentially be no difference between them and any other brigade being on the network, and considering most of their activity is either road crash or SAR, the chances of them being involved in an S44 are low, and even then not radio intensive.

Andrew

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tsunami_australia
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Re: VRA on RFS network

Post by tsunami_australia » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:40 pm

That emergency call ... we had the EXACT situation about a month ago here where it was BF training grabbed the wrong radio/mic and made everyone excrete bricks.

Yes if they call in to our comms then I agree they'd be alike any other brigade but wasn't the intention mentioned above for them to have a combined network for communication between themselves?

Talking about this only 2 minutes ago I heard a VRA unit call via the patch which may have been the mental coast setup. Just out of curiosity has anyone come up with a way to blacklist a particular RID with Motorola ASTRO25 gear?

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Re: VRA on RFS network

Post by Wonky » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:02 pm

Hi tsunami, welcome to the forum. Always good to get new opinions on the forum. Getting back on topic kinda, can I ask how do the P25 PMR networks on the midcoast work, are most brigades happier with it over the old analog?

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tsunami_australia
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Re: VRA on RFS network

Post by tsunami_australia » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:37 pm

The analogue system is GONE ... years ago believe it or not. The changeover was rather overnight sudden here. Those who know what they are talking about or at least have half an idea believe the P25 system to be better but there is always those old hangers on with the "oh we used to get reception crackly but could get it here/there". Originally I was one of the hangers on thinking there was no possible way the P25 could outdo analogue (oh boy was I wrong and now I play with P25 regularly in programming and hobby use I have not looked back).

THE SINGLE BIGGEST advantage of it is we had a lot of problems with voting when tankers first come online. If noone else had spoken in the last 10 seconds the radios would often "default" to Middle Brother and as a firefighter myself back then it was a bloody nuisance waiting for the old MCS to boot up and then having to hit home and hoped to hell it behaved and you didn't have to manually change channel to the local tower instead of the vote group. With the P25 system it has I believe it is called a comparator (???) in the repeater end so now the repeaters do half the voting and you only have to transmit out on the same frequency regardless of where in the council area you are. Then once the repeaters tail you can vote the rx. Took a lot of messing around out of the equation.

Generally speaking it was accepted well and part of that may be we went from 3 towers to 4 in Greater Taree and I believe Hastings earnt an extra as well. It cheesed off a lot of locals who had to upgrade scanners lol.

Anyway to answer another, we have 4 council regions now (Gloucester, Great Lakes, Greater Taree & Hastings) and each has 3-6 channels to itself. Gloucester and Great Mistakes are patched up in the repeater gear somewhere as when on their towers you see their RID's coming through and then the same with Greater Taree and Hastings. I see a different RID here for each of the Hastings tankers for example and if I go over to Great Mistakes the same for them and Gloucester. With the new Mid Coast Council merger and this rotten central dispatch garbage they've installed an XTL/APX radio at Great Lakes FCC (MidCoast FCCsouth) which patches the 2 old areas together as one and has the VoIP tap in point for HQ. Frankly if I could blacklist that RID from my radios I'd do it in a flash it's annoying.

Greater Taree and Hastings had each their own comms crew and Great Lakes with the assistance of a couple of folk from Gloucester had their own comms crew. Since the "like it or lump it cause we're doing it" approach happened with central dispatch of the daytime (we all understood the night shifts but not the day) each brigade which had plenty of members and always at least three to the active comms rooms (GT+GL or HAS+GL dependant on which week it was) now all three are having a hard time with crew and it's always the same few with many from all three brigades simply walking out. TBH I was seriously considering it myself. Due to health I'm not able to participate as much as I originally intended or want to but it seems I'm still one of only a few who can be relied on for urgent on-call in or out of area (nothing against those who just live too far from town).

One of the technical issues that a few of us have noticed lately and it has resulted in a few heated arguments already is that the audio level is low from the consoles back out to the repeaters. A couple of paid staff were accusing members of speaking softly when in fact they weren't. It wasn't a mic issue either as even when the line lights were bouncing red the same complaint still come in (one of the blokes accused of speaking softly is the type who doesn't know how to speak softly). There seems to be a mismatch in audio level at the console->radio interface card but hey what would those of us who play with this stuff know ... we're only volunteers and volunteers are stupid .... right... right??..

Something that also has arisen from all this for myself personally (was raised by another who was speaking to me) that "most join just to be on the radio without consideration of the other tasks" which is true and it's amazing sitting back and watching the squabble over it. I get enough radio time at home and in the car with CB, commercial assignments I have and talking with the local amateurs (HF is being lazy atm so only local on 2/70). So as a result I'm happy enough now to just lay back at the back of the classroom on either the paging or logging computer, listening out, thinking ahead keeping to myself and playing solitaire on the pad in between times (god forsake the RFS put solitaire on service computers).

Wonky
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Re: VRA on RFS network

Post by Wonky » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:04 pm

Thanks for the detailed reply and info tsunami, it is good to good an end users thoughts on systems we talk about on the forum.

Scotty
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Re: VRA on RFS network

Post by Scotty » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:09 pm

tsunami_australia wrote:The analogue system is GONE ... years ago believe it or not. .
Would you mind having a look at the 'NSW RFS East Coast Region - All TG's and Frequencies' thread and confirming the analogue frequencies listed there are gone. I'll update if that is the case.

Thread is here:
http://scansydney.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1347

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