20/10/2013 - Bushfire Related Logging

[Bigfella237]

The RFS have been broadcasting messages on a number of channels warning crews not to expect the radio system to work in an emergency due to the amount of users. If it wasn't so serious it would be funny.

I know the RFS don't program the orange Emergency button in their radio profiles, but if they did they would find the GRN gives priority to an emergency call over all the other jibber jabber, the only way an emergency call should get 'busied' is if there were more of them happen at the same time than there are bases/slots at the site they're on.

Which makes me wonder, now that they're moving to centralized dispatch out of Homebush, and monitoring with actual consoles, why isn't the emergency button function being used?

Maybe they're waiting until the next statewide re-profile?

[Scotty]

I don't think anybody in NSW programs the 'orange' button - but I think the problem is more than that.

As an emergency service, ANY call could be an urgent call - the user shouldn't have to press an additional button to get priority. Giving a particular user (such as the RFS) priority over another user (eg EA) would also not solve the problem, as the current sites are full of emergency service users, who would all have the same priority.

The obvious solution is more channels per site - but that then negates the cost benefits of having a trunked network over individual networks.

The GRN has many benefits for day to day operations. But it is at times when the benefits and abilities of the system (like easy access to extra tactical channels) are really needed that the downfalls in the system become very clear.

In my mind it also throws further creditability behind the RFS and NSWPF argument for separate PMR systems, something I haven't always agreed with.

[matthewn1983]

The RFS have been broadcasting messages on a number of channels warning crews not to expect the radio system to work in an emergency due to the amount of users. If it wasn't so serious it would be funny.

They probably should also warn..no.. TELL certain RFS members to get off ESO10, couple of radios just on Site 109 alone today sitting on ESO10, while there is countless 'Channel Resources are Unavailable' messages on the sites to their own members plus others who are trying to use the site for operations.

(also noticing 5 digit radio ids trying to affiliate eg, 57715, would this be the many VIC MFB appliances that are up here at the moment?)

I don't think anybody in NSW programs the 'orange' button - but I think the problem is more than that.

There was 'Emergency Button Pressed' messages on RFS radios today. I know the Rail guys have it, and the FRNSW guys do, when ever someone presses it, you hear a response straight away from the operator.

[Wonky]

57715 shouldn't be MFB, is not a current rid for them. Their rids start at 101001. The lowest rid I have in my MMR unitrunker files is 62001, which is the start of VP's allocation.

Could it perhaps be CFS from SA? (I don't have a clue about their rids)

[matthewn1983]

Yeah not too sure, there was a handful of strange 5 digit ids, I dont usually see anything out of the ordinary on this site, usually when you monitor 148 or one of the major sydney ones you see some strange stuff.

But with crews from ACT, Victoria CFA and MFB, SA CFS as well as from QLD and Tasmania who knows.

[Pumper_50]

Correct Wonky.

The MFB have 10 Pumpers up there. Plus several support based vehicles such as one of our USAR Taskforce trucks, a range of 4WD's and Commander Vehicles.

The MFB Pumpers have been crossmanned with FRNSW staff, meaning there are two MFB crew on each Pumper along with a FRNSW Officer and Firefighter.
So I would assume they would be using normal FRNSW communication assets and their own (the MFB radios) are sitting idle. They might be being cheecky and using 5 'Local' non-trunk P25 frequencies their radios have for a bit of 'in-house' chat but the range would be limited on those. Also on those Channels they wouldn't be programmed to even attempt an affiliation to a Network.

The MFB are not being used on the actual fire line but are backfilling at stations to permit the release of the FRNSW assets so they can attend the fire.

MFB TGID's for their MMR Network back home can be found here for reference: http://vicradiozone.wordpress.com/fire/ ... e-brigade/
As for some of the MFB RiD's refer here: http://vicradiozone.wordpress.com/mmr-n ... -unit-ids/

[ivahri]

I don't think anybody in NSW programs the 'orange' button - but I think the problem is more than that.

As an emergency service, ANY call could be an urgent call - the user shouldn't have to press an additional button to get priority. Giving a particular user (such as the RFS) priority over another user (eg EA) would also not solve the problem, as the current sites are full of emergency service users, who would all have the same priority.

The obvious solution is more channels per site - but that then negates the cost benefits of having a trunked network over individual networks.

The GRN has many benefits for day to day operations. But it is at times when the benefits and abilities of the system (like easy access to extra tactical channels) are really needed that the downfalls in the system become very clear.

In my mind it also throws further creditability behind the RFS and NSWPF argument for separate PMR systems, something I haven't always agreed with.

Scotty,

All FRNSW radios have had the Emergency button enabled for many many years... it even works on PMR.

You also totally misunderstand what the function of the feature is. It has nothing to do with gaining priority- that only comes into play when the network is busy while the function is needed 365 days a year- it is about alerting the radio operator that someone needs immediate assistance. It turns the console RED and displays the radio ID and alias.

Cheers

Richard

[Scotty]

You also totally misunderstand what the function of the feature is. It has nothing to do with gaining priority- that only comes into play when the network is busy while the function is needed 365 days a year- it is about alerting the radio operator that someone needs immediate assistance. It turns the console RED and displays the radio ID and alias.

I've no doubt that the orange button could have many different functions programmed, including the way that you describe, but I was referring to the button being used as an emergency 'priority access' button, which was in context to the message that I was replying to from Andrew.

The way you describe the FRNSW radios as having the orange button programmed simply alerts the operator that the button has been pressed. It doesn't give the person who has pressed the button priority/immediate access to the network, which it what was being discussed.

If all channels on any given site are busy, then pressing the orange button programmed in the way you describe won't get the message from the radio through any quicker. The user would still get a 'busy'

[BerryV]

Scotty,

All FRNSW radios have had the Emergency button enabled for many many years... it even works on PMR.

You also totally misunderstand what the function of the feature is. It has nothing to do with gaining priority- that only comes into play when the network is busy while the function is needed 365 days a year- it is about alerting the radio operator that someone needs immediate assistance. It turns the console RED and displays the radio ID and alias.
Cheers
Richard

Here is some trivia. On the Zeon(TETRA) network, if setup to use the feature, when a user hits the emergency button it automatically keys up the radio and audio is broadcast over the talkgroup. The interesting feature is that the LCD screen on all other receiving radios on the talkgroup also goes from the normal white/light blue color and switches to red and says "emergency" on the screen.

[Bigfella237]

Here is some trivia. On the Zeon(TETRA) network, if setup to use the feature, when a user hits the emergency button it automatically keys up the radio and audio is broadcast over the talkgroup. The interesting feature is that the LCD screen on all other receiving radios on the talkgroup also goes from the normal white/light blue color and switches to red and says "emergency" on the screen.

As I'm sure you know, there are simular features programmable for emergency activations with P25, such as "Hot Microphone" etc. and I know user radios can be programmed to receive emergency calls also, but I've never tried it on a radio with a colour display so I'm not sure if P25 displays flash to red as well, but it wouldn't surprise me, we know it happens on APX portables in a low battery situation?

Andrew