scanSydney

1) MONITORING THE GRN IS NOT ILLEGAL regardless of what anyone thinks or claims is written in legislation. I know this for a fact, if you want to affiliate to a grn site then yeah thats illegal as your gaining un-authorised access to a system you did not have permission for.

2) Monitoring Police Comms is not illegal either, that came directly from the Police Radio Techs @ Zetland.

3) The only thing i've been able to find in writing is from Police Prosecutors and it says its illegal to monitor paging systems

If agencies were concerned about people monitoring their comms why did the NSW Police purposely leave their analogue convertor stuff on for a while to keep the media happy. Really if if was against the law the nsw police would have said bugger off to the media very early on.

SKEYGEN wrote:The recipient does indeed need to be a person as far as section 5G is concerned.

This particular hangover from 1979 is the first thing that needs to be fixed if they rewrite the Act. It causes all kinds of trouble when you start talking about things like automated machine to machine communications, where because there's no recipient in the form of a person, there is no communication. (Work that one out!)

Nup. No requirement for the recipient to be a specific person, hence 5G(c).

This section was updated in 2006 to fix the flaw you talk about. See the relevent discussion regarding the change to this section while they were still a Bill before Parliament. Can be found on the Senate website. Admittedly I don't believe it has yet been tested, but this section was intended to mean the recipient does not have to be an individual person, as long as as a 'person' has/had some sort of control (but not necessarily immediate control) over the system receiving telecommunication. Therefore a computer can be a recipient.

centralcoastscanman wrote:1) MONITORING THE GRN IS NOT ILLEGAL regardless of what anyone thinks or claims is written in legislation. I know this for a fact, if you want to affiliate to a grn site then yeah thats illegal as your gaining un-authorised access to a system you did not have permission for.

Nobody knows this for a fact, indeed I don't know for a fact that it is illegal. It doesn't become a fact until a court decides.

The way the legislation is written certainly makes it appear that way, and that's why I raised it here, in the hope of having some intelligent discussion on the matter. I haven't walked away disappointed; Scotty has raised some very good points that I hadn't considered.

Its illegal if anyone wants to try and prosecute for an offence.
I know of quite alot of offences that are illegal but police and other law enforcement agencies look the other way.

If its so illegal to monitor the NSWGRN why do they release scanners that are capable of monitoring them, its the same as its illegal to monitor police comms yet there are scanners out there that can do it.
If it were illegal to monitor police comms uniden australia would have NEVER been able to sell something that can be used to commit a criminal act.

SKEYGEN wrote:

centralcoastscanman wrote:1) MONITORING THE GRN IS NOT ILLEGAL regardless of what anyone thinks or claims is written in legislation. I know this for a fact, if you want to affiliate to a grn site then yeah thats illegal as your gaining un-authorised access to a system you did not have permission for.

Nobody knows this for a fact, indeed I don't know for a fact that it is illegal. It doesn't become a fact until a court decides.

The way the legislation is written certainly makes it appear that way, and that's why I raised it here, in the hope of having some intelligent discussion on the matter. I haven't walked away disappointed; Scotty has raised some very good points that I hadn't considered.

One of the Newcastle scan chaps got in writing off the ACMA a while back what was legal in terms of scanning (and if i remember correctly basically avoid listening to telephone interconnect facilities eg patched phone calls you hear with the smaller taxi firms, marine radio etc,) so if it is what you say then they are ignorant of their own laws as well ... well what they understand as the intent of the regulations.

Grant

And we're way off topic here.

Start a new thread guys or keep it on topic please

cartman wrote:

SKEYGEN wrote:

centralcoastscanman wrote:1) MONITORING THE GRN IS NOT ILLEGAL regardless of what anyone thinks or claims is written in legislation. I know this for a fact, if you want to affiliate to a grn site then yeah thats illegal as your gaining un-authorised access to a system you did not have permission for.

Nobody knows this for a fact, indeed I don't know for a fact that it is illegal. It doesn't become a fact until a court decides.

The way the legislation is written certainly makes it appear that way, and that's why I raised it here, in the hope of having some intelligent discussion on the matter. I haven't walked away disappointed; Scotty has raised some very good points that I hadn't considered.

One of the Newcastle scan chaps got in writing off the ACMA a while back what was legal in terms of scanning (and if i remember correctly basically avoid listening to telephone interconnect facilities eg patched phone calls you hear with the smaller taxi firms, marine radio etc,) so if it is what you say then they are ignorant of their own laws as well ... well what they understand as the intent of the regulations.

Grant

You are 100% correct Grant, I've got a copy of the letter as Garry sent it to me sometime ago for my information

Interestingly, the ASK, as said by GCIO (GRN Owners) WILL stop all unathorised use. Stated in around 2007/8 as the XTL range with ASK was brought in. Same folk who were in denial about unauthorised use of 4.1 suystem Digital channels by encrypted radios. Obviously NOT as Richard is NOW saying there is still unauthorised use.

That is not to blame anyone, I would say they just believed everything /\/\ told them, or they did not quite understand.

With Richards info, either an ASK has gone on permanent holidays from an agency, or alternative "means" have been found. Take your pick, physical or technical security isn't that flash!

ST... I never wrote that an ASK has been used to put radios on the network without authority. I seriously doubt that to be the case. What is more likely is that there are radios out there that are either (a) not Moto radios, or (b) Moto radios never "hit" with an ASK.

Moto have been extremely open about network security & far far more willing to work with agency techs when problems are found- far more so than the previous network manager. P25 & Smartzone are very different creatures security wise- being an open standard makes security far more of a problem than a proprietary system.

Cheers,


Richard

network security is only as good as the people who are using it. No matter how much security you setup if there is the potential for someone to misuse.

The only real way to make sure no un-authorised radios make their way onto the GRN is if Motorola program all the radios themselves and issue them to the individual agencies. The problem with this would be any modifications would have to be done by Motorola as well to stop the potential for misuse(not that i'm saying any legit radio techs out there would misuse an ASK).