North SydneyCouncil

[citabria]

How much is a TB9100?

[criten]

By the way RoIP usually work over an ADSL based service. ADSL needs copper at the ends, no copper no ADSL (so we discovered). We haven't seen any evidence of transmissions deteriorating but we aren't using commercial ADSL. We have the odd drop outs, probably a couple a week.

I think you'll find alot of what you said about ADSL is due to restrictions imposed by Telstra Wholesale. Its quite normal for ADSL services to drop up to about 5 times per day. Telstra simply won't investigate drop out issues until its into double digits - even on commercial services.

Its a real shame that Telstra Wholesale provide no ability to apply speed profiles on ADSL lines. Non-Telstra ADSL2+ providers can do this. By restricting/reducing the speed of the line, you improve the lines stability, and this is the fix for dropout issues on ADSL2+.

We ping our services every 20 minutes (a bugger finding a tech who would work 24/7...) and most of the time it only lasts long enough to miss one ping. It is rare now for the boys to even notice it, and even then it usually is just an NTU needing a reboot (done remotely).

Nagios is a good IP network monitoring software - I'd be pinging much more frequently than that! 20 seconds sounds much better.

Also the trading hours of Telstra Wholesale are interesting... 9am - 5pm Monday to Friday. When it comes to faults between the end user and the ISPs POP there is very little that can be done outside these hours - therefore no point offering support outside these hours. However you will find that most ISPs do have network engineer staff who monitor their POPs 24/7.

One final thought - have you looked at multiple IP connections and using a failover device? Like ADSL + 3G Wireless Broadband?

ROIP would be good, but unless setup properly wouldn't even bother attempting it as numerous failure points

I was talking with my IP suppliers about this last week - they're unaware of any IP products they can offer me shy of $1k (and even then in limited areas) that do not depend on Sydney existing. So its far from true that the Internet is a network that'd survive nuclear war - at least in Australia. Scary but true.

[ivahri]

How much is a TB9100?

Between $10-12K to a government agency.

Cheers

[ivahri]

20 minutes is heaps... this is a voice network, not a data network, and all pinging every 20 secs would do is drive techs mad with short term outages that don't impact on anyone.

The restriction on ADSL requiring copper is technical, not commercial. Believe me- it cost Telstra money to find a workaround in one of our cases. We had a Voicelink at a site that had fibre to the next rack because Telstra GSM was in there but they still couldn't offer us ADSL. Sounds crazy, but true. We are a very very large Telstra corporate customer with significant "pull" and our big wigs deal with Telstra's big wigs.

Cheers,


Richard

[criten]

The restriction on ADSL requiring copper is technical, not commercial. Believe me- it cost Telstra money to find a workaround in one of our cases. We had a Voicelink at a site that had fibre to the next rack because Telstra GSM was in there but they still couldn't offer us ADSL. Sounds crazy, but true.

Well yes, thats because copper has a voltage for a start... and uses pitch and frequency to modulate a signal. Fibre uses light. Very different.

We are a very very large Telstra corporate customer with significant "pull" and our big wigs deal with Telstra's big wigs.

I don't think size will change Telstra operational policy - I've spent too many years being told "No" by Telstra in various ISP jobs I've previously held.

[ivahri]

I understand what you are saying about Telstra but they are a bit more careful when it comes to emergency services. The move to RoIP was due to Telstra discontinuing the Voicelinks so they couldn't easily justify taking an emergency service off the air because they couldn't support RoIP where it was needed. In this particular case they decided it was better to upgrade an exchange to support ADSL than either extending the life of the Voicelink or discounting older alternatives such as Frame Relay. Hey it made one small town very happy... they received improved internet because of us!

Cheers,

Richard

[ivahri]

Their IP based P25 is dependent on the rollout of the National Broadband Network ... like waiting for snow to fall ... a long wait
Wouldn't it be easier to stick a P25 repeater on top of Point Lookout/Ebor 1000 metres up
They would have coverage from Port Macquarie to Grafton from up there


Grant

Hi Grant,

I was just speaking to the company rolling this P25 conventional network out for Coffs Council... 5 sites linked via microwave back to an ip gateway with fibre used to link various depots & offices. Base stations are Tait TB9100s. Commissioning is supposed to be in April.

Cheers,


Richard

[cartman]

Further information on Coffs Harbour's P25 implementation found here

http://www.omnitronicsworld.com/wp-cont ... nd-P25.pdf


Grant

[cartman]

Finally pieced together earlier in the week from an exhaustive google search and from information on the acma that there is a P25 VHF net in situ for Coffs Harbour Council. I had initially thought it may have been UHF but the acma search proved that wrong. Googling did the rest.

Five repeaters at Mt Wondurrigah, Mount Coramba, Macauleys Headland, Woolgoogla and Sawtell with 160 two-way radios issued. There is a sixth site at Park Beach Caravan Park on the foreshore.

"The multi-channel, multi site APCO P25 high band VHF radio network ... covers 100% of the council wards, is designed to be resilent and high available, linked with a ethernet microwave backbone. The primary technology being implemented is TAIT P25 high band VHF repeaters, Aviat IP Backbone, Omnitronics Dx64 audio interface, Kenwood portable radios and TAIT mobile radios"

I was in the Coffs Harbour area on Thursday of this week but the VHF P25 system was quiet as a church mouse during the brief time i was listening.
Ostensibly i was there with my mother and sister on a rug finding expedition ex Port Macquarie. As it was an auto and my right leg is 100% I was given the driving duties.

Grant


INPUT
158.2750 Tx Vertel Site 20.5 km WSW of Coffs Harbour MT WONDURRIGAH
158.2750 Tx Telstra Tower Mount Coramba Orara East State Forest COFFS HARBOUR
158.2750 Tx Site 1 Macauleys Reservoir MACAULEYS HEADLAND
158.2750 Tx Woolgoolga Reservoir Headland off Ocean Street WOOLGOOLGA
158.2750 Tx Telstra/Optus Site Sawtell Reservoir SAWTELL
158.5750 Tx Vertel Site 20.5 km WSW of Coffs Harbour MT WONDURRIGAH
158.5750 Tx Site 1 Macauleys Reservoir MACAULEYS HEADLAND
158.5750 Tx Woolgoolga Reservoir Headland off Ocean Street WOOLGOOLGA
158.5750 Tx Telstra/Optus Site Sawtell Reservoir SAWTELL
158.5750 Tx Telstra Tower Mount Coramba Orara East State Forest COFFS HARBOUR
158.8750 Tx Site 1 Macauleys Reservoir MACAULEYS HEADLAND
158.9750 Tx Park Beach Caravan Park 1 Ocean Pde COFFS HARBOUR
159.0250 Tx Woolgoolga Reservoir Headland off Ocean Street WOOLGOOLGA
159.1500 Tx Telstra Tower Mount Coramba Orara East State Forest COFFS HARBOUR
159.1875 Tx Site 1 Macauleys Reservoir MACAULEYS HEADLAND
159.3375 Tx Telstra/Optus Site Sawtell Reservoir SAWTELL
159.6250 Tx Vertel Site 20.5 km WSW of Coffs Harbour MT WONDURRIGAH
159.6375 Tx Site 1 Macauleys Reservoir MACAULEYS HEADLAND
159.6625 Tx Telstra/Optus Site Sawtell Reservoir SAWTELL
159.7625 Tx Telstra Tower Mount Coramba Orara East State Forest COFFS HARBOUR
159.9750 Tx Telstra/Optus Site Sawtell Reservoir SAWTELL
160.0375 Tx Vertel Site 20.5 km WSW of Coffs Harbour MT WONDURRIGAH

OUTPUT
162.8750 Tx Woolgoolga Reservoir Headland off Ocean Street WOOLGOOLGA
163.1750 Tx Woolgoolga Reservoir Headland off Ocean Street WOOLGOOLGA
163.4750 Tx Site 1 Macauleys Reservoir MACAULEYS HEADLAND
163.5750 Tx Park Beach Caravan Park 1 Ocean Pde COFFS HARBOUR
163.6250 Tx Woolgoolga Reservoir Headland off Ocean Street WOOLGOOLGA
163.7500 Tx Telstra Tower Mount Coramba Orara East State Forest COFFS HARBOUR
163.7875 Tx Site 1 Macauleys Reservoir MACAULEYS HEADLAND
163.9375 Tx Telstra/Optus Site Sawtell Reservoir SAWTELL
164.2250 Tx Vertel Site 20.5 km WSW of Coffs Harbour MT WONDURRIGAH
164.2375 Tx Site 1 Macauleys Reservoir MACAULEYS HEADLAND
164.2625 Tx Telstra/Optus Site Sawtell Reservoir SAWTELL
164.3625 Tx Telstra Tower Mount Coramba Orara East State Forest COFFS HARBOUR
164.5750 Tx Telstra/Optus Site Sawtell Reservoir SAWTELL
164.6375 Tx Vertel Site 20.5 km WSW of Coffs Harbour MT WONDURRIGAH